There are people you arrange to see, and people you somehow keep running into after midnight. Gregorio has always belonged to the second category.
For most of the two years I’ve known him, our nights together have rarely been planned. I would find him somewhere, or he would find me, and a few minutes later I’d be following him to another bar, another room, another group of people I had never met before. One of the first nights in Paris when I remember feeling completely alive happened like that. Gregorio took me to Colonia, a place I didn’t know, above a perfume shop, and suddenly I was surrounded by people I found impossibly cool. I remember thinking: I want to go out with him all the time.
Gregorio is one of those people who seems to know everyone, although he insists he knows no one. He introduces people instinctively. You have to meet Yas. You two would love each other. He says things like that constantly, as if friendship were simply a matter of putting the right two people in the same room.
So perhaps it made sense that when I suggested interviewing him at my apartment, he immediately refused.
“I’d rather be outside,” he told me. “It’s more me.”
We meet around 9 p.m. and spend a while looking for somewhere to eat between the 6th and the 7th. Neither of us can quite work out how hungry we are. Eventually, we sit down.
OUTSIDE
What are you having?
Tartare and wine. You?
I don’t know. Shall we start? Actually, you know what I’ve been wanting to order for ages, but I can never find the right moment to have it?
What?
The waiter arrives.
Je peux avoir une soupe à l’oignon, s’il vous plaît?
I decide to get one too.
And a glass of red wine, please.
Can I have a pint, with syrup?
Meanwhile, I start setting up the recorder.
It’s been such a long time since we’ve seen each other in Paris.
I know.
Go on. First question.
Actually, I want to go back to something you said just before. When I suggested doing the interview at my place, you immediately said no. You wanted to be outside. You said, “I’m very much an outside person.”
He laughs.
Have you always been like that?
Yes. Honestly, even now. I’m exhausted, I’ve spent hours travelling today, and I barely stayed home long enough to rest. I need to go out. Earlier I was at home and I could feel the walls closing in on me. I can’t do it. If I don’t see people walking around, I start getting anxious. It’s a need. My body feels like it has to leave the house. The alternative is that I go insane. It feels like being in prison. And it’s not even that I need to do something extraordinary. I don’t necessarily want to go dancing or anything. I just need to see people around me. I need to be somewhere with life.
EVERYONE KNOWS GREGORIO
Ever since I’ve known you, so for about two years now, I’ve always had this impression that you know everyone. How is that even possible?
Gregorio laughs.
Really?
Or maybe everyone knows you.
Can I be honest?
You have to.
It’s absurd, but I have this incredibly distorted perception of myself. Everyone tells me, “You know everyone,” and somehow I still see myself as this complete loser who knows nobody. Everyone says it to me, but my brain just can’t see it. I constantly have this feeling that I don’t know anyone. I don’t know whether it’s insecurity exactly, but it’s something that makes me anxious. And it’s not anxiety about meeting people. Not at all. You know me. I have no problem talking to people. It’s just that sometimes I genuinely feel like I know no one, despite the fact that I go out every single night. It’s really strange.
Do you actually go out every night?
Thursday, Friday and Saturday are already completely full. And today, for example, while I was on the plane, I was already texting my friends asking, “Are you going out tonight? What are you doing?” because the idea of staying home makes me anxious. It’s awful.
Your nightmare?
My nightmare is everyone being out except me.
Do you have FOMO?
Not in the sense of, “Oh my God, my friends are having fun and I’m not there.” I’ve never really had that thing where I think, I have to be at that party, and I’m devastated because I’m not at that party. Mine is more like: everyone else is out there living their life, whether they’re at party X, Y or Z, and I’m at home. I don’t need to be in the same place as them. That’s not the point. What makes me anxious is the idea that everyone else is outside, living, and I’m the only idiot sitting at home doing absolutely nothing.
Have you always had that anxiety?
Always, but it has become so much stronger since I moved to Paris. Paris made it worse. And it’s not about university, or the environment… I’m really opening up now.
THE NIGHT
There’s something else I associate with you very strongly, and that’s the night. I don’t remember exactly which nights, because there have been so many, but I remember that some of the first nights when I really felt alive in Paris were with you. You probably didn’t even notice, because a lot of the nights we spent together weren’t planned. I would just run into you somewhere and you’d drag me somewhere else. I remember one place in particular. I couldn’t remember the name, but it’s a club and upstairs they make perfumes.
Colonia.
Yes. One of the coolest nights I’ve had. I met so many incredible people. I remember thinking, I wish I could go out with him all the time. What is your relationship with the night?
I prefer it to the day. I love this question. Honestly, I would live only at night if I could. I hate the day. It makes me sad. I think life is made to be lived at night. It’s at night that you meet people, that you fall in love, that you cry, that you live. The day is useless. I hate it. For me, the night is the heart of life.
Your ideal night in Paris? With the disclaimer that I hate the word “ideal.”
It changes depending on the period of my life. Right now, my ideal night would be, first, ending up with someone I really like. Second, being surrounded by people I don’t know but who are genuinely cool. Maybe fashion people, at Hôtel Costes. Absolutely no Castel. Enough Castel! I want to be around people who make me feel good, who make me feel free. Maybe somewhere a little gay. And then end up with someone I like. Definitely. I am two things: the night and being outside.
Three places in Paris where you know the night won’t disappoint you?
A gay place. Any gay place, as long as it isn’t terrible. Somewhere I know I can flirt. Doctor Love, definitely. La Fête. And Rasputin. The problem with Castel is that it makes me sad. I’ll definitely go back sooner or later, but it feels like I’m clinging to two years ago, if that makes sense. We had insane nights at Castel. We had so much fun. But so many things have changed. I don’t know whether you feel the same way.
PARIS
I’ve also had a very difficult time in Paris. It’s been a difficult city for me, and I hope this year will be better. I feel like it will be better because I feel more mature.
Compared to when? Or compared to what?
I developed so many insecurities in this city. Before coming here, I was much healthier. Here, sometimes I feel like I’ve gone insane. I don’t want to say people are bad, because that’s not true. But sometimes, if someone finds a weakness in you, they can use it against you. It isn’t an easy city. At least, it hasn’t been for me.
One of my biggest problems is that I tend to think almost everyone is fundamentally good and that, if you understand them properly, they probably have good intentions. Unfortunately, I’m having to accept that sometimes there are people who simply don’t want good things for you.
People can also be very jealous. In this city, I think you have to be very strong to stop caring. I really hope I’m going to be happy this year. I loved my first year here. And it’s not that I had real problems during the second one, but there was this constant little anxiety that I also felt in certain places, which I’m not going to name now. I try not to avoid them, though. Because I want to win.
CONNECTING PEOPLE
There’s something about you that I really love. When we’re with someone, you’re always the person who says, “Do you know Yas? You have to meet her. I think you two would be such good friends.” I love that you connect people, even though I don’t think you consciously think of yourself as someone who does that. Where does it come from?
I think I’ve always done it because maybe people didn’t really do that for me. People didn’t spontaneously come towards me and try to become my friend. And I think it takes so little to try to find something genuinely beautiful and real between people. So why wouldn’t you?
When you’re out, going back to what you were saying earlier, do you ever suddenly think, Enough. I want to disappear for a while?
Never. No. I’ve never had the feeling that I need to escape from things.
STYLE
A question about style. I think of you as very elegant. You’ve worked in fashion, too, and it’s clearly a world you like. Does elegance feel like you? How would you describe your style?
I actually don’t want to be elegant. I’d like to be a little more… long-sleeved T-shirt. I want my style to change. I want to be cooler, more contemporary, slightly less elegantino. I’m trying. But I still have a lot of work to do.
I would have loved to see your wardrobe. That’s something I’ve done in some of my other interviews. Another question: I’ve been seeing you a lot on TikTok lately.
He starts laughing.
TIKTOK
What is happening with TikTok?
I don’t know. It was one of those things where recently I thought: I’m in this fucking city, sorry, and I never manage to actually do the things I want to do. For fun, I’d love to be recognised in the street. I’d love to be invited to events. So I thought, let’s try something. Maybe it goes badly. Which is kind of what’s happening now.
Will you let me make a TikTok with you afterwards? We can do one together?
No.
Okay.
I realise it’s one of the first things I’m doing where the point is me. I probably should check the statistics, because some of the videos actually get a lot of likes and shares, but I don’t.
RAPID FIRE
Paris during the day or Paris at night?
Easy.
Dinner for ten or dinner for two?
Obviously ten.
Being known or being understood?
Being known.
Elegance or style?
Style.
A place in Paris that feels like yours?
I don’t have one.
Absurd. One word for friendship.
Safety.
One word for desire.
Fame.
Family?
Boredom.
Loneliness?
Horrible.
One word for Gregorio.
Curiosity.
One for me.
Funny. You make me laugh!
And your favourite word?
My favourite word? What is it? I don’t know… Papadopoli!