On leaving and coming back to Paris, Milanese elegance, friendship, long hair, carrot cake, and four things from my wardrobe.
I met Eugenia in Paris through a friend, although neither of us seems particularly certain anymore about exactly who introduced us. I think it might have been Ludovico. Maybe the uncertainty is nicer.
Eugenia is one of the gentlest people I know. I am often hectic, impatient, moving between ten thoughts at once, and she has always had the opposite effect on me. When I’m around her that makes everything feel slightly quieter. But in the best way you know.
At first she can seem shy. Then you spend more time with her and realise that underneath the softness there is a very funny, observant person with extremely good remarks and a particular way of looking at things. She listens. She notices. And she is one of those people who makes you feel that what you’re doing genuinely interests her.
I recently found out that she is leaving Paris for a while, and it made me realise two things at once: that I’m going to miss having her here, and that despite all the time we’ve spent around each other, there is still so much about her I don’t know.
I don’t know which books she loves. Which films she returns to. What she does when she’s alone. What Milan means to her now that she has lived elsewhere. What Paris changed. What she believes in, what she finds beautiful, what she finds ridiculous, what she keeps beside her bed.
So before she left, I asked.
The format I have in mind for Palomita Office is to interview people in their own homes. I want to see where they live, what they keep around them, what’s on their shelves, inside their wardrobes, next to their beds. But Eugenia was moving out of hers when she agreed to be interviewed. It was her last week in Paris, so this time, she came to mine.
When she arrives, she tells me she initially thought my building was the yoga studio downstairs.
YASMINA: No, that would be next level. Yoga question: did you read the questions beforehand, or are you free-falling?
EUGENIA: I read some of them, but honestly I’ve had a super busy week.
She notices the Dictaphone and is immediately intimidated.
We struggle to open a bottle of wine. I have never opened one before and, for some reason, assumed she would know how. We’ve made a tiny aperitivo for each other and, for a moment, it looks like we might not even manage to drink the wine.
EUGENIA: Can I say “brave, we did it”?
I give her glasses from L’Avant Comptoir du Marché because my landlord is a thief.
I ask her to sit opposite me. I haven’t exactly prepared dinner: crisps and a selection of cheeses. She has just come back from a workout, so naturally we start there.
DEPENDING ON THE MOOD
EUGENIA: It depends on my mood. Vinyasa yoga, Pilates if I’m tired, Lagree if I have more energy. More energetic things.
You stopped doing those workouts, no? Why?
YASMINA: I had my Dynamo phase where I was going almost every day. But I think I’m paradoxically in a period where I want to be less stimulated. Going to classes can feel like too much. There are too many people.
So I’m trying to do yoga at home, and obviously I run.
EUGENIA: That actually makes sense. I probably work out two or three times a week.
YASMINA: What’s something you do every single day?
EUGENIA: Grocery shopping. For dinner. Every day.
I go after work. It’s basically my routine. I wish I could do bigger grocery shops, but whenever I do, I’m terrible at organising everything. I obviously have three supermarkets under my apartment, so I buy different things, make strange combinations, and then end up with random leftovers.
That’s just how it is.
YASMINA: I get it. I tried for years to become one of those people who plans everything in advance.
I was talking about it with Ludo, and then I discovered that all his recipes are made with ChatGPT.
EUGENIA: Exposed.
YASMINA: Do your recipes… exist?
EUGENIA: Yes, but they’re extremely simple. Pasta, risotto, big salads. That’s basically it.
I try to eat healthily because I have a huge sweet tooth, so I compensate for all the desserts I love with healthy meals.
YASMINA: Favourite dessert?
EUGENIA: Carrot cake.
I still haven’t found the perfect one, though. The last one I tried was from a bakery called Crouton, around Strasbourg-Saint-Denis, near where I live.
PARIS WAS SUPPOSED TO FEEL LIKE A FILM
YASMINA: You moved to Paris two years ago.
EUGENIA: Yes. Two years ago, for an exchange, a double-degree programme.
We met in January 2025, and I had arrived literally a week earlier.
I remember we were at Mazarin. You arrived like, “I work at YSL,” with brown hair, dressed in black, completely different, wearing a blazer.
We laugh. I have shifted forms quite a few times this year, and because Eugenia is a close friend, she has witnessed most of them.
EUGENIA: I’ve lived in the same apartment the whole time.
I like my neighbourhood. It’s very lively. I’m surrounded by restaurants, bars, young people. But I don’t think it’s somewhere I would live forever because it’s too noisy. It feels more like a neighbourhood for a particular phase of your life.
Long term in Paris, I could see myself in the 7th, the Marais, maybe the 10th or 11th. So much happens there.
YASMINA: Did you know Paris before moving here?
EUGENIA: Yes. I had been with my family and I didn’t like it!
It hadn’t won me over at all. I complained about how dirty it was. Then I came back another time with friends and liked it much more.
I chose Paris myself when I decided to move here. And I had this idea that living here would feel a little like living in a film.
YASMINA: I feel like we all have that idea.
Before Paris I was in Madrid. I really liked it, but I never saw it as somewhere I would live forever.
I remember talking about this with my roommate at the time, Costi’s sister. We were talking about the idea of a final destination. As in: what is the city where you think, this is it, I could actually stay here?
I knew quite quickly that Madrid wasn’t mine. Not because I didn’t like it. Just a feeling.
What do you think your final destination is?
EUGENIA: When I first moved to Paris, I was completely in the honeymoon phase.
It really did feel like the film I had imagined. I photographed everything: the buildings, the streets.
Then eventually you get used to it and start noticing the flaws.
I don’t know what my final destination is. I haven’t found Paris particularly difficult, but one thing I struggle with sometimes is that it doesn’t feel very easy to escape the city.
YASMINA: You’re from Milan.
EUGENIA: Yes.
YASMINA: Could Milan be your final destination?
EUGENIA: Milan could be, because I know I can live well there and I genuinely like it.
I wouldn’t say there is necessarily something Milan does better than Paris as a city. But when you’re inside Milan, it feels like a big city even though it’s actually quite small. And it has a very open spirit.
I definitely feel at home there.
YASMINA: Milanese fashion or Parisian fashion?
EUGENIA: Milan, I think.
Paris is such a mix. Fashion-wise, you see everything.
But in Milan, especially in the more residential neighbourhoods, there is this very recognisable “per bene” style. Very polished, very Milanese.
I really noticed it when I went back after Design Week last year. I looked around and thought: this is such a specific style.
She looks down.
Can I give Paloma a piece of cheese rind?
FOUR THINGS FROM MY WARDROBE
YASMINA: Let’s talk about clothes. How would you describe the way you dress?
EUGENIA: Difficult.
YASMINA: Actually…
Part of me wishes we were doing this interview at your place, because one thing I want to do with Palomita Office is look inside people’s wardrobes and make them tell me about their clothes.
But today you’re at mine, so come with me.
I take her into my bedroom and warn her that my wardrobe is going to be a disaster.
I ask her to choose four things from my wardrobe that she would actually wear. She finds the exercise very funny.
I then have to explain the organisation of my wardrobe, despite there being absolutely no organisation.
YASMINA: I like this. It’s also a way for me to rediscover what I own.
I’m deeply embarrassed by the state of this wardrobe, I’m not going to lie.
Eugenia chooses four things.
A pair of lime-green Carmen Says trousers with blue feathered trim at the bottom. A beige turtleneck I’ve owned for maybe seven years, even though I currently hate beige. Blue striped Brandy shorts. And a pair of pink striped Gucci shorts.
EUGENIA: I can explain why I chose them.
First of all, I would genuinely wear all four. They could all exist in my wardrobe.
They’re colourful, which I like. I like stripes and patterns, but I still want things to feel quite minimal and simple.
A basic, soft, comfortable sweater that works with everything is perfect.
And then I chose the more ridiculous piece because I think the feathers are fun.
YASMINA: I do wear those Carmen Says trousers, but after five minutes I start feeling embarrassed.
Still, I think it’s important to own clothes that are a little stupid or fun. I always think about your pink trousers. I love them.
EUGENIA: I probably chose things you don’t wear anymore.
YASMINA: No, exactly.
I’m in a slightly darker aesthetic now.
Although I’m realising that lately I’m becoming less and less elegant, which makes me a bit sad.
You’re very elegant.
EUGENIA: Not today.
YASMINA: If you could look at yourself from the outside, would you say your style has always stayed the same?
EUGENIA: No. It has changed, and I can actually tell you when.
Even since moving to Paris, I’ve become much more easygoing.
Milan is smaller, and you always have this feeling that if you go outside, you might run into someone. So you don’t really leave the house in your gym clothes.
In Paris, I have the impression that everything is more relaxed. Maybe nobody is even looking at you.
YASMINA: I used to be fascinated by this idea when I was younger.
I read all those books and interviews about how to dress like a Parisian woman. How to Be Parisian Wherever You Are, Jeanne Damas, even French Women Don’t Get Fat.
And I remember reading things like: “You will never see a Parisian woman wearing workout clothes outside the gym.”
Bullshit.
We are all in workout clothes.
And I actually love that.
EUGENIA: Me too.
Because you feel free. It’s less formal, less structured, and sometimes you need that.
In Milan, that isn’t quite as possible.
You have to come visit me.
YASMINA: This winter. Promise.
And then we’ll do Part Two at your place.
EUGENIA: You should do different parts.
Interview lots of people now, and then maybe later you go deeper.
Interviews inside people’s homes are like those YouTube videos with celebrities.
HAIR, OBVIOUSLY
YASMINA: You have amazing hair. I’ve always thought that.
EUGENIA: That’s not true!
YASMINA: It is.
Mine refuses to grow and I’m desperate.
Very basic question, but what’s your relationship with your hair?
EUGENIA: I actually always had hair like yours, around shoulder length.
I’ve only grown it out over the last two years. I thought: I want to try long hair, these are the years to do it.
So I grew it against the wishes of my mum and grandmother, who constantly ask me, “So, when are you cutting your hair?”
YASMINA: Why?
EUGENIA: I think they find it messy. Like it doesn’t look properly maintained.
YASMINA: Do you believe that thing people say about hair reflecting your personality?
When I had short hair, people used to tell me I looked more aggressive. With longer hair, apparently I look more romantic.
Bullshit again.
We get distracted and I tell her the latest gossip.
EUGENIA: No. Stop the game.
Eventually, we return to the hair.
EUGENIA: I do think that when something important changes in your life, you often change your hair.
But I don’t think it necessarily says anything about your personality.
YASMINA: You’ve never wanted to change the colour?
EUGENIA: No. Maybe go a little blonder.
When I was a child my hair was much lighter and it darkened naturally as I got older.
So maybe there’s also something about wanting to return to what I think of as my original colour.
THE SMALL DETAILS
YASMINA: You’re one of the friends who calms me down the most.
I don’t really know why. Maybe it’s the way you speak, or the fact that you don’t ask me a thousand questions.
Not that there’s anything wrong with asking questions.
But you ask the right ones.
I’ve always thought of you as a very calm person, and at the same time I always feel very close to you.
What does feeling close to someone in a friendship mean to you?
EUGENIA: For me, it happens when you start opening up more and telling each other personal things.
You move past that phase where you only ask each other questions about work.
I don’t need to be in constant contact with people at all.
I like calling people, and I can spend hours on the phone. I’m always connected, but not in a visceral way.
When I’m sad, I call my mum and complain.
But closeness is also in the tiny details.
When I realise someone thought of me in a particular situation. Or they remember something I said ages ago and bring it up again.
Having somebody on the other side who genuinely listens. Someone who remembers what you tell them.
And another important quality for me is simply being funny.
Someone who makes you laugh, who always has the right joke ready.
I feel very comfortable with people like that.
YASMINA: And when one of your friends is going through something difficult, what kind of friend are you?
EUGENIA: I try to understand what the other person actually wants.
Everyone is different. Sometimes people want space.
I try to make myself present, suggest things we can do, even without directly talking about whatever is wrong.
Sometimes I try to be a distraction.
THE BOOKS WE DIDN’T READ
We move on to culture.
EUGENIA: I love reading, but I wish I read more.
I read when I travel, on trains, on planes, but lately I haven’t picked up many books.
I would love to have more of a routine.
I just bought The Vegetarian, but I’ve read about five pages.
YASMINA: One book everyone should read?
EUGENIA: These are exactly the questions I told myself I had to prepare for, and then completely forgot.
I think we should go back to the classics.
Maybe The Catcher in the Rye. I read it in high school.
YASMINA: I loved it.
I had this beautiful copy and I have absolutely no idea where it is now.
Stolen from my cousin, obviously.
Okay, another game.
We are very lucky that my landlord studied philosophy and has this habit of buying endless amounts of books, bless her.
So if you had to choose one book from this bookshelf to take home, what would you choose?
And if you want, I’ll actually lend it to you.
EUGENIA: Disclaimer: I read on Kindle.
She looks through the shelves.
Political economy… maybe not.
YASMINA: I joined the American Library in Paris, so don’t judge me based on these books.
EUGENIA: White Nights!
Read it. It’s short. You can finish it in one evening.
I loved it.
YASMINA: Wait, there’s a Russian version too.
EUGENIA: Right, I forgot you speak Russian.
YASMINA: If you had to learn one difficult language, what would you choose?
EUGENIA: German.
Although for a while I really wanted to learn Japanese. I wanted to go to Japan too.
I miss long trips.
The last proper one I did was Brazil last summer. I loved it.
YASMINA: You still haven’t chosen a book.
EUGENIA: Maybe this one.
Il fu Mattia Pascal.
It was one of those books I was supposed to read for school, and I cheated and didn’t actually read it.
I regret that now.
I think it’s one of those books you’re supposed to have read.
WAKING UP
YASMINA: First thing you do when you wake up?
EUGENIA: I look at my phone.
I need something to wake me up, so I look for light. I check my notifications even if it’s really early.
I’m slightly ashamed that this is my morning habit, but without it I genuinely don’t wake up. And half the time there isn’t even anything to look at, you know?
YASMINA: I used to do the same. Paloma helped because now I have to go outside pretty much as soon as she wakes up.
We’ll see how that goes in winter, though.
EUGENIA: Paris in the morning is beautiful, though. There’s nobody around.
YASMINA: If you could change that habit, what would you want your mornings to look like?
EUGENIA: I’d love not to look at my phone until just before leaving the house.
Not even replace it with something else. Just get ready. Wake up and exist.
I need routines in general. I need more stable routines.
YASMINA: And when you’re overwhelmed by a day, how do you change it?
EUGENIA: A walk. Alone.
Or sometimes I call someone.
I like walking towards the Marais or Canal Saint-Martin.
YASMINA: We’re almost done, and you’ve actually said much more than you think.
EUGENIA: Really?
FIVE EUROS OF REASSURANCE
YASMINA: Wait. I have one last category.
Do you remember when I became completely obsessed with learning tarot?
I remember you were one of the few people who didn’t make fun of me. You were basically like, let’s do it, I want to try.
Do you actually believe in it?
EUGENIA: No.
YASMINA: Okay.
EUGENIA: But I did it once in my life, during a pretty dark period.
I was with some friends around Brera, where there are these women who read cards, and we stopped. We each paid five euros to ask one question.
I don’t know. Somehow it did reassure me, even though she obviously told me things that were quite generic.
YASMINA: Don’t worry. I once paid sixty euros to talk about two men with a tarot reader.
EUGENIA: You would’ve saved money by just talking to them.
YASMINA: Fair.
So tarot?
EUGENIA: I don’t know. Sometimes it’s just something fun to do. Just to see what comes out.
YASMINA: Do you think they basically tell us what we want to hear?
EUGENIA: Yes.
You can always twist everything and reinterpret everything.
It’s a bit like ChatGPT.
YASMINA: There are people who analyse their tarot readings with ChatGPT now.
Also, you can give Paloma the little bits of cheese rind if you want.
EUGENIA: Slowly, Paloma.
IF YOU COME BACK
YASMINA: Something personal you’re proud of?
EUGENIA: Something good coming up.
YASMINA: You’re leaving now. If you come back to Paris, what do you hope will be different, and what do you hope stays exactly the same?
EUGENIA: I hope the social life stays exactly the same. Especially the way it’s been recently.
I swear, I love it. I hope all of that stays the same.
I think when you know you’re about to leave something, you try to concentrate everything into the time you have left.
Recently I’ve gone out somewhere different every single day, and I’ve had this feeling that every day I was doing something beautiful.
I don’t really know what I would want to change.
RAPID FIRE
YASMINA: Last part of the interview. The so-called rapid fire.
EUGENIA: Okay. I’m scared.
YASMINA: Sea or mountains?
EUGENIA: Sea.
YASMINA: White or black?
EUGENIA: White.
YASMINA: New or vintage?
EUGENIA: New.
YASMINA: Perfect or imperfect?
EUGENIA: Perfect.
YASMINA: Breakfast out or aperitivo out?
EUGENIA: Aperitivo.
YASMINA: Plan everything or decide at the last minute?
EUGENIA: I’d like to plan everything, but unfortunately I decide at the last minute.
YASMINA: Ballet flats or heels?
EUGENIA: Sneakers.
YASMINA: Cook or be cooked for?
EUGENIA: Be cooked for.
YASMINA: Croissant or pain au chocolat?
EUGENIA: Pain au chocolat.
YASMINA: Dinner for two or dinner for ten?
EUGENIA: Ten!
YASMINA: I knew it.
EUGENIA: Why?
YASMINA: Because we like big dinners.
Stay home or go out?
EUGENIA: Go out.
YASMINA: And to finish: your favourite word?
EUGENIA: I DON’T KNOW.
PALOMITA OFFICE PHOTO EVIDENCE
